Discussion:
Support the Troops
(too old to reply)
kb
2005-01-23 21:24:37 UTC
Permalink
We must withdraw our military from Iraq, the sooner the better. The
reason is simple: Our presence there is a disaster for the American
people and an even bigger disaster for the Iraqi people.

It is a strange logic to declare, as so many in Washington do, that it
was wrong for us to invade Iraq but right for us to remain. A recent
New York Times editorial sums up the situation accurately: ``Some 21
months after the American invasion, United States military forces
remain essentially alone in battling what seems to be a growing
insurgency, with no clear prospect of decisive success any time in the
foreseeable future.''

And then, in an extraordinary non sequitur: ``Given the lack of other
countries willing to put up their hands as volunteers, the only answer
seems to be more American troops, and not just through the spring, as
currently planned. . . . Forces need to be expanded through stepped-up
recruitment.''


Here is the flawed logic: We are alone in the world in this invasion.
The insurgency is growing. There is no visible prospect of success.
Therefore, let's send more troops? The definition of fanaticism is that
when you discover that you are going in the wrong direction, you
redouble your speed.
======================================

above is the first part of this article:
Support Our Troops: Bring Them Home
by Howard Zinn
01/22/05 "Miami Herald" --
the whole article is here:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7795.htm

==========================================================

This land is OUR land
That land is THEIR land
Bush is very FULL of shit
Let's get the troops out of it
This land is OUR land...
Mr.G
2005-01-23 21:57:20 UTC
Permalink
What happens when you take the troops out of Iraq?
I can help you out some with this one.
First the government that is there now. will all
be put to death.
Saddam will be set free and the terrorist who are
in the country
will complete their mission. They were already
moving into Iraq
before the US government decided that something
had to be done.
The group most noticed was the Al Ansar Islamia, a
member of Al Qaeda.
http://frontal.lusocom.net/082/082.htm
When Al Qaeda sends in a group with the name of
the Helpers, it is the
next to last step. The next step was to take out
the Iraqi regime and use the
recources of Iraq against the southern nations. If
we let them replay the entire
life of Mohammed we would be fighting World War 3
in a few short years,
possibly right now.
http://www.islamiaprincipia.com/?q=node/view/339
Post by kb
We must withdraw our military from Iraq, the
sooner the better. The
Post by kb
reason is simple: Our presence there is a
disaster for the American
Post by kb
people and an even bigger disaster for the Iraqi
people.
Post by kb
It is a strange logic to declare, as so many in
Washington do, that it
Post by kb
was wrong for us to invade Iraq but right for us
to remain. A recent
Post by kb
New York Times editorial sums up the situation
accurately: ``Some 21
Post by kb
months after the American invasion, United
States military forces
Post by kb
remain essentially alone in battling what seems
to be a growing
Post by kb
insurgency, with no clear prospect of decisive
success any time in the
Post by kb
foreseeable future.''
``Given the lack of other
Post by kb
countries willing to put up their hands as
volunteers, the only answer
Post by kb
seems to be more American troops, and not just
through the spring, as
Post by kb
currently planned. . . . Forces need to be
expanded through stepped-up
Post by kb
recruitment.''
Here is the flawed logic: We are alone in the
world in this invasion.
Post by kb
The insurgency is growing. There is no visible
prospect of success.
Post by kb
Therefore, let's send more troops? The
definition of fanaticism is that
Post by kb
when you discover that you are going in the
wrong direction, you
Post by kb
redouble your speed.
======================================
Support Our Troops: Bring Them Home
by Howard Zinn
01/22/05 "Miami Herald" --
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7795.htm
==================================================
========
Post by kb
This land is OUR land
That land is THEIR land
Bush is very FULL of shit
Let's get the troops out of it
This land is OUR land...
Michael Singletary
2005-01-23 22:49:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by kb
It is a strange logic to declare, as so many in Washington do, that it
was wrong for us to invade Iraq but right for us to remain.
I disagree. The fact that we invaded Iraq (when we did) was a mistake,
sure, but now that we are there we must fix what we have broken and help
ensure that the country does not fall to the terrorists that are now
inside trying to stir up attacks.

If we immediately decide pull out and remove all of our troops from the
country, those that aim to cause political unrest will surely seize
control and turn the country into an even bigger terrorist state than it
was. In short, it will turn into a melting pot for anti-American terrorist
organizations to meet, plot, and design new ways to kill our people.

We have terribly shaken up and very nearly destroyed the country as a
whole. Leaving now would further damage all we have since worked for and
basically be like handing the country to those that aim to kill us.

Imagine pre-war Afghanistan, only hundreds of times worse.


--
Michael R. Singletary
http://www.panix.com/~miakeru/
k***@hotmail.com
2005-01-24 01:18:20 UTC
Permalink
We need to begin our journey out of there. There are wiser minds who
can do much better than the fools from the pentagon, to solve the
problems there. It seems idiotic to blow up cities, to kill a more than
a hundred thousand innocents - including women and children - to
cripple at least 5X that number for life - all on false pretext, then
to expect them to like us - to insist upon staying. If we were in
their shoes, and the roles were reversed, those of us with any sanity
would want them to get the hell out.

A large part of the problem is that we've got a fake president who is
the product of a fake election. The same shit is being exported to
Iraq. More of the same - old sh-t. Fake leaders, fake elections - big
liars - big bucks for billionaires for Bush. Lots of people around the
globe can see through the Bush bull shit. He and his pals are only
fooling themselves.

Bush wiil not succeed in Iraq. With so much blood on his hands, he
should be in jail, not the white house. He truly is, surrounded by
shit.

------------------

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience.
Our problem is that numbers of people all over the world have obeyed
the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war,
and millions have been killed because of this obedience. . . Our
problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of
poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem
is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves,
and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our
problem." Howard Zinn, "Failure to Quit", p. 45
--------------------

" The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the
growth of private power to the point where it becomes stronger than the
democratic state itself. That in its essence is fascism - ownership of
government by an individual, by a group or any controlling private
power." : F.D. Roosevelt

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and
causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the
war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high
places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavour
to
prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until
all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is
destroyed." : Abraham Lincoln - 1865

<><><>

"Man must change or die. There is no other course."
The World Teacher
http://www.Share-International.org
HymieGoldstein
2005-01-24 14:38:43 UTC
Permalink
The war in Iraq is fought by volunteers, which means people that no one in
power cares about. No one in the mysteriously named "elite" gives a damn
about some kid from a town in Tennessee that has one gas station and a beer
hall with a stuffed buck's head. Such a kid is a redneck at best, pretty
much from another planet, and certainly not someone you would let your
daughter date. If conscription came back, and college students with rich
parents learned to live in fear of The Envelope, riots would blossom as
before. Now Yale can rest easy. Thank God for throwaway people.

The nearly perfect separation between the military and the rest of the
country, or at least the influential in the country, is wonderful for the
war effort. It prevents concern. How many people with a college degree even
know a soldier? Yes, some, and I will get e-mail from them, but they are a
minority. How many Americans have been on a military base? Or, to be truly
absurd, how many men in combat arms went to, say, Harvard? Ah, but they have
other priorities.

In 15 years in Washington, I knew many, many reporters and intellectuals and
educated people. Almost none had worn boots. So it is. Those who count do
not have to go, and do not know anyone who has gone, and don't interest
themselves. There is a price for this, though not one Washington cares
about. Across America, in places where you might not expect it-in Legion
halls and VFW posts, among those who carry membership cards from the
Disabled American Veterans-there are men who hate. They don't hate America.
They hate those who sent them. Talk to the wounded from Iraq in five years.
RH
2005-01-27 06:11:14 UTC
Permalink
That was a nice reply - thanks for sharing the truth!

The truth will set us free.
Their lies will only keep us enslaved - and at war!
mentALEXcersize
2005-07-12 01:46:34 UTC
Permalink
You're right. Nothing is worth fighting for. When the bullies beat me up
on the playground I happily turned over my lunch money. Mom understood and
gave me more change. Dad understood and taught me how to "box". It will
probably be the same with the muslims. Nothing to worry about.
GoldMine
2005-07-13 06:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps they just heard the news that Britan is pulling out 1/2 of its
troops form the battle in Iraq.
But if you listen again, you will hear they revised their initial caution,
and let them go to London. So, buy one of them a pint, if they show up in a
local pub. Us yanks like that good British beer (Ale), also.
Post by mentALEXcersize
You're right. Nothing is worth fighting for. When the bullies beat me up
on the playground I happily turned over my lunch money. Mom understood and
gave me more change. Dad understood and taught me how to "box". It will
probably be the same with the muslims. Nothing to worry about.
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